举报者如何塑造历史 – Kelly Richmond Pope

TED 精选 2018-12-17

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举报者如何塑造历史 - Kelly Richmond Pope

身为研究欺诈的学者和纪录片制片人，凯莉·瑞蒙德·普特分享了她从那些历史上著名的举报者身上学到的经验，并解释了举报者分享的信息是如何塑造我们的社会的——以及为什么他们需要信任和保护。

00:01
How many of us have ever seen something, thought that we should report it, but decided not to? And not that I need to see a show of hands, but I'm sure this has happened to someone in this room before. In fact, when this question was asked to a group of employees, 46 percent of them responded by saying that they had seen something and decided not to report it. So if you raised your hand, or quietly raised your hand, don't feel bad, you're not alone.
我们有多少人当遇见一些事情时，想着我们应该举报它，但最后决定不去做？我不是要看到你们举手，但是我确定这个房间的某些人有过这种经历。事实上，当问到一些公司雇员这个问题时， 46%的人说到他们曾经见过一些想要去举报的事情，但最后决定没有去做。所以，如果你举起了手或者是悄悄地伸出手，别感觉不好，这很正常。

00:28
This message of if you see something to say something is really all around us. Even when driving down the highway, you see billboards like this, encouraging us to report crime without revealing ourselves. But I still feel like a lot of us are really uncomfortable coming forward in the name of the truth.
下面这句话无处不在： “如果你看到了什么就说什么。” 即使行驶在高速公路上，你也能看到这样的广告牌：鼓励我们匿名举报犯罪。但是我仍然认为我们许多人当以真理的名义挺身而出时，会感觉到不舒服。

00:45
I'm an accounting professor, and I do fraud research. And in my class, I encourage my students to come forward with information if they see it. Or in other words, encouraging my students to become whistle-blowers. But if I'm being completely honest with myself, I am really conflicted with this message that I'm sending to my students. And here's why. Whistle-blowers are under attack. Headline after headline shows us this. Many people choose not to become whistle-blowers due to the fear of retaliation. From demotions to death threats, to job loss -- perpetual job loss. Choosing to become a whistle-blower is an uphill battle. Their loyalty becomes into question. Their motives, their trustworthiness. So how can I, as a professor who really cares about her students encourage them to become whistle-blowers, when I know how the world truly feels about them?
我是一位会计学教授，研究欺诈行为。在我的课上，我鼓励我的学生如果他们看见了什么，就应该大胆说出来。换句话说，就是鼓励我的学生们成为举报者。但是如果对我自己坦诚相待，我本人与传授给学生的思想却十分冲突。下面来解释为什么。举报者正在受到伤害。一条条的头条新闻向我们展示了这一点。很多人不愿成为举报者，是因为怕被报复：从降级和死亡威胁，再到失去工作—— 是永久的失业。成为举报者是一项艰苦的战斗。他们的忠诚受到质疑。还有他们的动机，诚信都是如此。那么既然作为一名十分关心自己学生的教授，在我知道这个世界真实看待他们眼光的时候，我怎么还能鼓励他们去成为举报者呢？

01:44
So, one day I was getting ready for my annual whistle-blower lecture with my students. And I was working on an article for "Forbes," entitled "Wells Fargo and Millennial Whistle-blowing. What Do We Tell Them?" And as I was working on this piece and reading about the case, I became outraged. And what made me angry was when I came to the fact and realized that the employees that tried to whistle-blow were actually fired. And it really made me think about the message that I was sharing with my students. And it made me think: What if my students had been Wells Fargo employees? On the one hand, if they whistle-blew, they would have gotten fired. But on the other hand, if they didn't report the frauds that they knew, the way current regulation is written, employees are held responsible if they knew something and didn't report it. So criminal prosecution is a real option. What's a person supposed to do with those type of odds?
有一天，我正在和我的学生们准备一年一度的举报者演讲。当时我在阅读福布斯上面的一篇文章，标题是：”富国银行和千禧一代的举报者，我们告诉他们什么了？“ 当我正在研究这篇文章，阅读这个案例时，我变得十分愤怒。让我生气的原因是因为当我了解全文的事实后，我发现那个举报的员工竟然被开除了。这让我深刻反思我向我的学生们教授的这个思想。我反思道：如果我的学生就是那个被开除的富国银行的员工呢？一方面，他们如果举报了，他们就会被开除。但同时另一方面，如果他们没有举报他们知道的欺诈行为，就在以现行的监管体制下，职员知道情况但不进行举报的，将会承担相应的责任。因此，刑事诉讼是真实存在的。当处在这样两难的境地时，我们应该怎么做呢？

02:38
I of all people know the valuable contributions that whistle-blowers make. In fact, most frauds are discovered by them. Forty two percent of frauds are discovered by a whistle-blower in comparison to other methods, like measurement review and external audit. And when you think about some of the more classic or historical fraud cases, it always is around a whistle-blower. Think Watergate -- discovered by a whistle-blower. Think Enron -- discovered by a whistle-blower. And who can forget about Bernard Madoff, discovered by a whistle-blower? It takes a tremendous amount of courage to come forward in the name of the truth. But when we think about the term whistle-blower, we often think of some very descriptive words: rat, snake, traitor, tattletale, weasel. And those are the nice words, the ones I can say from the stage.
我和所有人都清楚举报者所做的贡献是有价值的。事实上，大多数欺诈行为都是被他们揭发的。相比其他揭露方式，比如测量评估和外部审计等，有42%的欺诈行为是由举报者揭露的。当你思考一些更加经典的或者历史上的欺诈案例，它始终会围绕着一名举报者展开。想想水门事件——由举报者揭发。想想安然丑闻——由举报者揭发。谁又能忘记伯纳德·麦道夫的骗局正是被举报者揭发的？以真相的名义站出来需要非常大的勇气。但当我们想想“举报者”这个词时，我们总会想到一些非常具有描述性的词：老鼠，蛇，背叛者，告密者，黄鼠狼。这些词是我在这里能说出最好的词了。

03:34
And so when I'm not in class, I go around the country and I interview white-collar felons, whistle-blowers and victims of fraud. Because really I'm trying to understand what makes them tick and to bring those experiences back into the classroom. But it's my interviews with whistle-blowers that really stick with me. And they stick with me, because they make me question my own courage. When given the opportunity, would I actually speak up? And so, this is a couple stories that I want to share with you.
所以当我不在课堂上时，我走遍全国各地采访那些白领欺诈犯、举报者和受害者。因为我很想明白是什么让他们如此作为，并把吸取到的经验带到我的课堂上。但真正吸引我的是我对举报者的采访。他们真正的吸引了我，因为他们让我质疑我自己的勇气。当真的有说真话的机会时，我真的会说出来吗？接下来是我想与你们分享的一个故事。

04:02
This is Mary. Mary Willingham is the whistle-blower from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, academic fraud case. And Mary was a learning specialist at the university, and she worked with students, primarily student athletes. And what she noticed, when she was working with students, is they were turning in term papers that seemed well beyond their reading levels. She started to ask a couple of questions and she found out that there was a database where the student athletes could retrieve papers and turn them in. And then she found out that some of her colleagues were funneling students into fake classes, just to keep them eligible to play. Now, when Mary found this out, she was outraged. And so what she tried to do was go to her direct supervisor. But they didn't do anything. And then Mary tried to go to some internal university administrators. And they didn't do anything.
这是玛丽。玛丽·威廉汉姆是一名举报者，她揭发了北卡罗来纳大学教堂山分校的学术欺诈案。玛丽是大学里的一位学术专员，她主要的工作对象是学生运动员。在她与学生们工作期间，她注意到：他们交的学术论文水平，貌似高于他们的阅读水平。她开始提出一系列问题，然后发现有一个数据库，这个数据库可以让学生运动员获取论文并将它们上交。她又发现她的一些同事将她们的学生列入不存在的班级中，只是为了让学生们们有资格参加比赛。当玛丽发现了这件事情时，她愤怒了。所以她去向直属上司反映。但他们什么都没有做。然后玛丽试着去报告给大学的管理者，他们也没有做什么。

04:54
So, what happens when nobody listens? You blog. So Mary decided to develop a blog. Her blog went viral within 24 hours, and she was contacted by a reporter. Now, when she was contacted by this reporter, her identity was known. She was exposed. And when she was exposed, she received a demotion, death threats, over collegiate sports. Mary didn't do anything wrong. She didn't participate in the fraud. She really thought that she was giving voice to students that were voiceless. But her loyalty was questioned. Her trustworthiness and her motives.
那么当没人听取意见时怎么办呢？博客。所以玛丽决定建一个博客。她的博客开始在24小时内传播开来，然后有一个记者联系了她。当她被这位记者联系到后，她的身份就广为人知。她被曝光了。而当她被曝光后，她被降级，在大学体育部工作时收到死亡威胁。玛丽没有做错什么，她并没有参与进这场欺诈。她真心认为自己是在为那些沉默的学生们发言。但她的忠诚，诚信和动机却遭到了质疑。

05:33
Now, whistle-blowing doesn't always have to end in demotions or death threats. Actually, in 2002, this was the cover of "Time" magazine, where we were actually honoring three brave whistle-blowers for their decision to come forward in the name of the truth. And when you look at the research, 22 percent of whistle-blowers actually report retaliation. So there is a huge population of people that report and are not retaliated against and that gives me hope.
如今，举报者不必总是以降职或是死亡威胁作为结局。事实上，在2002时代杂志的封面上，有3位我们引以为傲的举报者，她们敢于以真相的名义站出来。再来看看研究数据， 22%的举报者都说受到了报复。所以还有很大一部分人揭露真相但却没有受到报复的，而这给了我希望。

06:02
So this is Kathe. Kathe Swanson is a retired city clerk from the city of Dixon. And one day, Kathe was doing her job, just like she always did, and she stumbled upon a pretty interesting case. See, Kathe was at the end of the month, and she was doing her treasures report for the city, and typically, her boss, Rita Crundwell, gave her a list of accounts and said, "Kathe, call the bank and get these specific accounts." And Kathe did her job. But this particular day, Rita was out of town, and Kathe was busy. She picks up the phone, she calls the bank and says, "Fax me all of the accounts." And when she gets the fax, she sees that there is an account that has some withdrawals and deposits in it that she did not know about. It was an account controlled only by Rita.
这是凯瑟。凯瑟·斯万森是一名迪克逊市的退休公务员。一天，她像往常一样做着她的工作，偶然发现一个非常有趣的案例。当时正是月底，凯瑟在做城市的财务报告，和平常一样，她的老板瑞塔·克鲁德威给了她一列账户说道： “凯瑟，打电话给银行，获取这些账户。” 凯瑟照做了。但是这是特殊的一天。瑞塔出差了，凯瑟正忙。她拿起电话打给银行说： “用传真发我所有的账户。” 当她收到传真后，她发现有一个账户有着支出和存款记录，但她不清楚那些记录。那是一个瑞塔私人的账户。

06:48
So Kathe looked at the information, she reported it to her direct supervisor, which was then-mayor Burke, and this led into a huge investigation, a six-month investigation. Come to find out, Kathe's boss, Rita Crundwell, was embezzling money. Rita was embezzling 53 million dollars over a 20-year period, and Kathe just happened to stumble upon it. Kathe is a hero. And actually, I had the opportunity of interviewing Kathe for my documentary, "All the Queen's Horses." And Kathe wasn't seeking fame. In fact, she really didn't want to talk to me for a really long time, but through strategic stalking, she ended up doing the interview.
所以她看了下信息并报告给了直属上司，当时的市长：布鲁克。而这引出了大量的调查，足足花了6个月时间。最终发现，凯瑟的老板瑞塔·克鲁德威当时是在挪用公款。瑞塔在职的20年间挪用了5300万美元，而凯瑟偶然发现这件事情。她是一个英雄。我有幸采访到她，以制作我的一部纪录片“女王所有的马”。凯瑟并没有追求名誉。相反，她并不想和我聊很长时间，但是通过我的战略迂回，她还是完成了整个访谈。

07:30
(Laughter)

07:31
But she was seeking fairness, not fame. And if it wasn't for Kathe, who's to say this fraud would have ever been discovered?
但她追求的是公平，而非名誉。如果不是凯瑟，谁能知道这个骗局会不会被发现？

07:39
So, remember that "Forbes" article I was talking about, that I was working on before my lecture? Well, I posted it and something really fantastic happened. I started receiving emails from whistle-blowers all over the world. And as I was receiving these emails and responding back to them, there was a common theme in the message that I received, and this is what it was: they all said this, "I blew the whistle, people really hate me now. I got fired, but guess what? I would do it all over again if I could." And so as I kept reading this message, all these messages, I wanted to think, what could I share with my students? And so, I pulled it all together and this is what I learned.
所以，记得之前谈到的我课前准备的那篇福布斯杂志的文章吗？我把它上传了然后一些奇妙的事情发生了。我开始收到来自全球各地举报者的邮件。在我收到并回复邮件的过程中，有一个主题始终存在于每一条信息，就是：他们全写到：”我捅破了骗局，人们现在都非常恨我。我被开除了，但猜怎么着？只要有机会，我还是会去检举揭发。" 所以当我在读所有的这些消息时，我不禁想到，我有什么能和我的学生们分享的吗？所以我把这些信息全部拼凑到一起，得到了下面的结论。

08:19
It's important for us to cultivate hope. Whistle-blowers are hopeful. Despite popular belief, they're not all disgruntled employees that have a beef with the company. Their hopefulness really is what drives them to come forward. We also have to cultivate commitment. Whistle-blowers are committed. And it's that passion to their organization that makes them want to come forward. Whistle-blowers are humble. Again, they're not seeking fame, but they are seeking fairness. And we need to continue to cultivate bravery. Whistle-blowers are brave. Often, they underestimated the impact whistle-blowing had on their family, but what they continue to comment on is how hard it is to withhold the truth.
培育希望对我们来说是很重要的。举报者是乐观有希望的。尽管是在流行的观点下，他们并非都是对公司心怀不满的员工。正是他们的乐观精神驱使他们站出来。我们还应该培养奉献精神。举报者是尽责的。正是他们对自身所在的组织充满激情，他们才会想要站出来。举报者都很谦虚。再次强调，他们不是在追求名誉，而是公平。我们还要培养勇敢的精神。举报者们都很勇敢。通常，他们低估了举报对他们家庭的影响，但是他们一直在谈论的是隐瞒真相有多难。

09:05
With that, I want to leave you with one additional name: Peter Buxtun. Peter Buxtun was a 27-year-old employee for the US Public Health Service. And he was hired to interview people that had sexually transmitted diseases. And through the course of his work, he noticed a clinical study that was going on within the organization. And it was a study that was looking at the progression of untreated syphilis. And so, there were 600 African American males that were in this study. They were enticed into the study through being given free medical exams, burial insurance. And so, what happened through the course of this study, is penicillin was discovered to help treat syphilis. And what Peter noticed was, the participants in this study were not given the penicillin to treat their syphilis. And the participants didn't know.
谈到这里，我想讲讲另一个人：彼得·巴斯通。彼得·巴斯通27岁，是美国公共卫生服务的职员。他的工作是采访患有性病的病人。他在工作的过程中，他注意到他的工作组织正在进行一项临床研究。这项研究主要是观察未经治疗的梅毒病人的状况。 600名美国黑人男性参加了这项研究。他们加入这项研究后，获得了免费的体检和葬礼保险。这场研究帮助发现了治疗梅毒的青霉素。而彼得注意到的是，参与这项研究的人并没有得到青霉素以治疗他们自身的疾病。而这些参与者们并不知道。

10:01
So similar to Mary, Peter tried to report and talk to his internal supervisors, but no one listened. And so Peter thought this was completely unfair and he tried to report again, and finally talked to a reporter -- very similar to Mary. And in 1972, this was the front page of the "New York Times": "Syphilis Victims in US Study Went Untreated for 40 Years." This is known to us today as the Tuskegee syphilis experiment. And Peter was the whistle-blower. What happened to the 600 men, you may wonder, the 600 original men? Twenty eight men died from syphilis. One hundred died from syphilis complications, forty wives were infected and 10 children were born with congenital syphilis. Who's to say what these numbers would be if it wasn't for the brave, courageous act of Peter?
所以和玛丽一样，彼得也试着去报告给他的上司们，但是没有人听。所以他觉得这完全不公平，他又试着去报告这件事，最终他报告给了一名记者—— 这和玛丽是否相似。在1972年，这就是纽约时报的首页： “在美国的一项研究中梅毒受害者长达40年未经治疗。“ 这就是我们今天熟知的塔斯基吉梅毒试验。而彼得就是其中的举报者。你可能会想知道那600参加实验的人发生了什么？其中28人死于梅毒。 100多人死于梅毒并发症， 40位他们的妻子被感染了， 10名新生儿带有先天性梅毒。如果不是彼得充满勇气的行为，谁能说出这些数字是什么呢？

10:53
We're all connected to Peter, actually. If you know anybody that's in a clinical trial, the reason why we have informed consent today is because of Peter's courageous act.
事实上，我们都和彼得有所关联。如果你知道一些加入临床研究的人，而之所以我们如今知情是因为彼得勇敢的行为。

11:05
So let me ask you a question. That original question, a variation of the original question. How many of us have ever used the term snitch, rat tattletale, snake, weasel, leak? Anybody?
现在让我来问你们一个问题。这个问题是一些原始问题的变形。我们有多少人使用过以下术语: 告发者，老鼠，告密者，蛇，黄鼠狼，泄密。有人吗？

11:27
Before you get the urge to do that again, I want you to think a little bit. It might be the Mary, the Peter, the Kathes of the world. You might be the person that could shape history, or they could be the person that shapes yours.
在你想要再这样做的冲动之前，我希望你能想一想。你谈论的对象可能是玛丽，彼得，凯瑟。你可能就是那个改写历史的人，或者他们可以成为那个改变你世界的人。谢谢。